tenderpaw08 (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
tenderpaw08) wrote2013-10-08 10:18 am
tenderpaw08) wrote2013-10-08 10:18 am
Thoughts on Modeling Consent
Clearly Dirk in the userpic doesn't quite have it right when it comes to affirming interest and consent before getting physical. I'm sharing this article that made the Facebook rounds as well as my thoughts here so I'll be able to reference it more easily in the future.
http://disruptingdinnerparties.com/2013/09/26/modeling-consent/
Women can and should ask for consent as well. While a typical man may be thrilled if a woman drapes herself around him, hugs him intimately, pets him, and takes away all the guess work of what she wants it is still incredibly hot as well as courteous to verbally affirm consent first and prevents a double standard. I see it as a form of respect, and wish everyone gave that to my partners as well as me. I don't think unannounced prolonged hugs pressing yourself against an acquaintance should be considered acceptable for either gender. I find it a reprehensible hypocrisy that there are so many women who would react with anger and even violence if a man came up and pressed himself into one of them yet think nothing of taking the same exact action themselves. I get that it works and many guys don't mind, yet it is a double standard.
Being largely written about a woman's experience, the article has some natural gender bias. I've had numerous partners who have been blindsided by assertive women who never asked. "It just happened...." It saddens me both that the men craved the attention so much they didn't care about the lack of respect and that the women think it's okay because he liked it. Gender reversed rape culture; it exists.
I appreciate that the article makes it clear that progressive consent is also appropriate. Having mutual interest and agreeing to date someone doesn't have to mean sex or other intimate play at any point, either.
Maybe it's mostly an ASD thing, yet not everyone catches and properly interprets visual and physical clues. Verbal confirmation that it's all good doesn't have to slow things down (unless there is uncertainty in which case slowing down is good), and in some cases it can speed things up nicely. Asking by gestures still puts pressure on someone; I like the focus on affirming interest by verbally expressing your own and giving the other person room to respond however they wish without it being a direct rejection.
My favorite comments when I posted this on Facebook were from Jonah who shared "I don't have time to read the article right now, but yes. I love clear communication, and that happens best within consent rather than wordless action. These can be combined beautifully, as in my favorite personal example: I asked to kiss her, and she responded by passionately kissing me first. Not tons of talking, but clear communication by both parties" and then "Now that I think of it, if I had just waited instead of asking I hope that she would have asked me instead of just kissing me." He later read the article itself and appreciated it as well.
http://disruptingdinnerparties.com/2013/09/26/modeling-consent/
Women can and should ask for consent as well. While a typical man may be thrilled if a woman drapes herself around him, hugs him intimately, pets him, and takes away all the guess work of what she wants it is still incredibly hot as well as courteous to verbally affirm consent first and prevents a double standard. I see it as a form of respect, and wish everyone gave that to my partners as well as me. I don't think unannounced prolonged hugs pressing yourself against an acquaintance should be considered acceptable for either gender. I find it a reprehensible hypocrisy that there are so many women who would react with anger and even violence if a man came up and pressed himself into one of them yet think nothing of taking the same exact action themselves. I get that it works and many guys don't mind, yet it is a double standard.
Being largely written about a woman's experience, the article has some natural gender bias. I've had numerous partners who have been blindsided by assertive women who never asked. "It just happened...." It saddens me both that the men craved the attention so much they didn't care about the lack of respect and that the women think it's okay because he liked it. Gender reversed rape culture; it exists.
I appreciate that the article makes it clear that progressive consent is also appropriate. Having mutual interest and agreeing to date someone doesn't have to mean sex or other intimate play at any point, either.
Maybe it's mostly an ASD thing, yet not everyone catches and properly interprets visual and physical clues. Verbal confirmation that it's all good doesn't have to slow things down (unless there is uncertainty in which case slowing down is good), and in some cases it can speed things up nicely. Asking by gestures still puts pressure on someone; I like the focus on affirming interest by verbally expressing your own and giving the other person room to respond however they wish without it being a direct rejection.
My favorite comments when I posted this on Facebook were from Jonah who shared "I don't have time to read the article right now, but yes. I love clear communication, and that happens best within consent rather than wordless action. These can be combined beautifully, as in my favorite personal example: I asked to kiss her, and she responded by passionately kissing me first. Not tons of talking, but clear communication by both parties" and then "Now that I think of it, if I had just waited instead of asking I hope that she would have asked me instead of just kissing me." He later read the article itself and appreciated it as well.
no subject
So, anecdote != datum. With that caveat:
No, that's not incredibly hot -- sorta. On the straight male side of things, there's the patriarchal narrative of "sleep with any (conventionally) attractive woman you can" that promotes this that, at least for me, doesn't actually work. So the cultural programming makes me think I want exactly what you described, but then I realize, No, I don't.
Jonah's comment generates tons of applause from me. Now that, that'd be hot. :) But yeah, creeptastic behaviour is sometimes the same regardless of the originating party's gender. (And then there's lots of asymmetry in patriarchal behaviours.)